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Byron
20-Mar-2007, 09:05 AM
About time too all pupil's should look the same at school in their uniform's



Source bbc news

Schools allowed to ban face veils

Teachers need to be able to see pupils' faces, the DfES says
Schools will be able to ban pupils from wearing full-face veils on security, safety or learning grounds under new uniforms guidance set to be issued.
In February, a 12-year-old girl failed in her High Court attempt to overturn her Buckinghamshire school's niqab ban.

Ministers promised revised guidance for England taking that into consideration.

It says efforts should be made to accommodate religious clothing but stresses the importance of teachers and pupils being able to make eye contact.

We feel very strongly that this was a matter of principle that there shouldn't be barriers to communication between students and teachers

Head teacher
Veil court case school

The issue of religious dress has become an increasingly complicated one for schools in recent years, with a handful of high profile cases going to court.

But it is the victory by the Buckinghamshire school, which cannot be named for legal reasons, that has prompted the updated guidance.

The school argued the veil made communication between teachers and pupils difficult and thus hampered learning.

Teachers needed to be able to tell if a pupil was enthusiastic, paying attention or even distressed but full-face veils prevented this, it said.

This position was upheld by the High Court - which refused to grant a judicial review - and is expected to form a key part of the guidance.

Guidance welcomed

Schools need to be able to identify individual pupils in order to maintain good order and to identify intruders, it is expected to say.

"If a pupil's face is obscured for any reason the teacher may not be able to judge their engagement with learning or secure their participation in discussions and practical activities," it adds.

The head teacher of the Buckinghamshire school, who also cannot be named, said it would be very useful to have some clear guidance from the DfES.

"It's not right that schools should have to be arguing this out case by case," she told the BBC News website.

"Obviously there's a trade-off between schools retaining autonomy over school uniform decisions, on the other hand we will have some very clear guidance from the DfES within which to work."

'Equality'

She said she did not regret the school's decision to fight the case.

"We feel very strongly that this was a matter of principle, that there shouldn't be barriers to communication between students and teachers.

"We also feel the young people in our school should be educated on an equal basis and be prepared for their role as adults in a modern society in which we expect there to be equality between men and women."

The Muslim Council of Britain has not yet responded to the guidance, but in a 72-page document released in February the organisation stopped short of endorsing niqabs for girls.

It did, however, urge schools to take into account Muslim pupils' needs to dress modestly and avoid tight-fitting or transparent garments.

Financial hardship

Ayshah Ishmail, a teacher at a Muslim girls' school in Preston who wears the niqab away from the classroom, told the BBC that wearing the veil promotes equality.

She said: "You're judged for who you are and not what you are, so I think there are two arguments to the whole equality issue."

There were misconceptions that women who wore the veil were being oppressed, she added.

The DfES guidance also instructs schools to be sensitive to the cost implications of their choice of uniform which should be available at high street shops.

A recent letter to all schools from the Office of Fair Trading says they can be prosecuted for engaging in exclusive agreements with specific retailers.

The guidance also reiterates schools' right to discipline pupils for not wearing the proper uniform.

But they should carefully investigate the reasons behind this and be sensitive in cases of financial hardship.

JLD
20-Mar-2007, 11:37 AM
Unless you can see a pupils face, it is hard (sometimes impossible) to make a judgement about how well the pupils has understood what is being taught and how involved they are in the lesson.

shroonie29
20-Mar-2007, 08:59 PM
Wish we could remove them in the Airport.Would make security easier

shroon

The Grim Reaper
25-Mar-2007, 09:14 PM
About time too,when in rome etc.

Jerry
26-Mar-2007, 02:43 AM
I think most of us agree on this one - with the exception of the extreme Muslims.

You nned to see a pupils face to know if they have understood your lesson.

As for security - ther cannot be an argument for the Veil!

JLD
26-Mar-2007, 08:05 AM
When I used a moped a lot, I always used to remove my helmet when going into shops, bank etc. Partially out of politeness and partially so that others could see my face (so that there were no barriers to communication).
Where's the difference?

JLD
26-Mar-2007, 08:33 AM
Another point which may have a bearing on some peoples view on this subject.
Some of you have met my daughter, Vicky, but may be unaware that she has a hearing problem. Vicky wears 2 hearing aids and , from an early age, taught herself to lipread. At times, when there is a lot of background noise, Vicky still uses this (I can 'mouth' something to her across a very noisy, large room and she will know exactly what I've 'said').
A beard/moustach has an effect on how useable this technique is. Just image the effect of a veil.

Jerry
26-Mar-2007, 10:16 AM
When I used a moped a lot, I always used to remove my helmet when going into shops, bank etc. Partially out of politeness and partially so that others could see my face (so that there were no barriers to communication).
Where's the difference?

Likewise banks demand you take your crash helmet off - for obvious security reasons.